June 28, 2011 at 2:41 am #24421
from WSOP coverage:
We wandered by Daniel Negreanu’s table and overheard him talking to the other five players at his table, which happens to include Daniel Alaei and David Singer. Negreanu was suggesting that they all try playing heads-up no-limit hold’em sometime, but with a little catch.
In the game, one player is given the choice to either see his opponent’s hole cards from the get go, or he can pick to see the turn and river cards in advance. Whichever option he chooses, his opponent is awarded the other. Negreanu claims to have played before and actually had a lot of fun, claiming it is better to have the ability to see the turn/river cards in advance.
what you guys and gals think ?
June 28, 2011 at 8:37 am #30752
hmm thats pretty nice wat is it called……lets try it once jake explain how does it work??
June 28, 2011 at 10:00 am #30757AnonymousInactive
Did you know about this variation Jake?
June 28, 2011 at 1:47 pm #30759
No, have to say this variation is new to me, but i like it !.
im not sure the exact specifics of when the choices are made (is it preflop after the first round of betting,, this is what i’m assuming, as it cant be on the flop, but it could be before preflop betting also). i think this would work with multiple players as you can chose specific opponents and opponents in position may not be given the choice as a compensation for opponents out of position. im sure there is a fair way to do it. but i may also mail Daniel and ask for a complete explanation.
ive played some weird variations before. including Indian holdem, Indian Irish / pineapple and crazy pineapple (note you are allowed to see your discard).. by Indian in this case i refer to the game where everyone puts their cards face out on their forehead and plays, its actually quite interesting. (even ran tournaments of these games with 100 runners !!!!) — also note its my understanding that Indian in this case refers to the American Indian / Red Indian or wild west days rather than those coming from India, just incase any confusion)
played holdem where you see the turn card preflop. (you deal everyone two cards as normal and then one face up in the middle. this becomes the turn card eventually and you proceed as normal with the betting rounds), similar to Corecheval in Omaha.
but this variation is new to me.
As to how it would play out, this is what i’m assuming and until i get a chance to chat to Daniel about it,, which i presume wont be for ages, BUT we could ask Intervention to get clarification as hes closer, this is only an assumption.
and obviously this works best for a heads up game
Deal as per Holdem, same blinds etc
after preflop betting complete: players make choices, now this is where it gets tricky, if there are only two players left in the hand then its fairly straight forward and i would be inclined to give first choice to the player OUT OF position (closest (including) the small blind). If more than two, then the next player out of position gets to chose (if not included in the first choice) and can only chose a player who hasnt been involved in making a choice.
a short rule of thumb would be,, choose in betting sequence. you cannot chose if you have been the subject of a choice. and no more than one player is allowed to see any other players hole cards. (so if you are last to choose, you cant choose to see someones hole cards that have already been seen by another player) If there is an odd number of players left in the hand, the last player cannot chose from anyone who has been chosen against and must keep the the previous rules. No player shoudl have advantage of knowing BOTH an opponents hand AND the turn and river
. this gives a balance to position as there is still a preflop betting round with no choices. and also the extra information in this game is MASSIVE so late position may lose out on choice but gains from the ability to see action ahead of him / her.
no player should have knowledge of BOTH hole cards of an opponent and the turn and river cards (obv)
now in trying to work this out,, i CANT make it work for an odd number of players. so either this HAS to be played heads up OR, my mind isnt working yet OR i need some help. the short version is no one should have access to the information from both sides of the coin,, so no one should know a opponents hole cards AND the turn and river. and with odd numbers this gets tricky. i was trying to find a way where the last choice was restricted or already defined by those gone before.
open to suggestions !!
June 28, 2011 at 4:37 pm #30760
hmmm this variance is very tricky. first and foremost we should play it out live than we will be able to analyze the flaws in it ….and later we can modify it accordingly.
June 28, 2011 at 5:16 pm #30761
well i am lead to understand its a head up variation and works simply and easily in that scenario. i was trying to make it more involving to more people.. that isn’t easy.. playing it out live though is just a means to comprehend rather than analyse.
June 28, 2011 at 5:39 pm #30762
well looking forward to play it one day………
June 28, 2011 at 5:56 pm #30763AnonymousInactive
How about making the odd player in each round stand out by tweaking the rules a little like in contract bridge?
July 4, 2011 at 10:25 pm #30809richestuserMember
player who watches turn and river has an advantages….
Player who watches opponents card has no idea that those cards are Junk or Gold 🙂
But things will change from hand to hand…
July 7, 2011 at 2:48 pm #30824Rajat AgarwalKeymaster
But interesting concept. Has anyone here played it?
July 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm #24422Poker GuruParticipant
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