How many online cash game winning players do you think are there in India?

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    • #24265

      Hey guys,

      Sorry if this is a stupid question but is it possible to determine how many winning cash game players there are in India? If yes how many are there? If not then guess :p

    • #30447
      Rajat Agarwal
      Keymaster

      Well this is a difficult stat to find especially when such country wise data are not published by Poker Rooms.

      The only thing I am certain of is that this number is increasing now faster then ever.

      If I were to guess I would say 500 profitable online cash game players who pack in enough volume but its just an arbitary guess.

    • #30457
      richestuser
      Member

      All the professional poker player use multiple accounts to play poker.. which makes more difficult to track records of Win/loss of any player….yet having multiple accounts on same website is illegal.. but players have no other option…

      Their are too many software available online which give accurate data of win / loss/ hand history/playing style of a player….

      hence it becomes impossible to determine exactly how many winning players are present in our country or any where in world…..
      IT is assumed that 1 player of every 3 player is a winning player… hence if their are 1500 player in India then their must be 500 winning players..but then again it is just an arbitary guess as said by Rajat above..

      regards

    • #30458
      Jake Witcher
      Member

      roughly 3% of all online players are winning players. given the new nature of the industry in India i would speculate (with a certain amount of education in the industry). that the real number for Indian players is around 2 – 2.5% given the more developed nature of the rest of the world that indians are learning their trade against.

    • #30460
      richestuser
      Member

      roughly 3% of all online players are winning players. given the new nature of the industry in India i would speculate (with a certain amount of education in the industry). that the real number for Indian players is around 2 – 2.5% given the more developed nature of the rest of the world that indians are learning their trade against.

      u mean to say that only 20-25 players registered on Poker guru are winning players?

    • #30461
      Jake Witcher
      Member

      I am talking about numbers across all Indian players as a whole, thus the original question.

      PokerGuru is a strong and very friendly community of players who are interested (generally) in learning and growing thier skills and understanding of the game, so as such i would have thought there would be a distortion of that 3% amoungst this community. It is actually possible that there are only 20 – 25 winning players LIFETIME on ‘guru but that was not the target of my answer originally.

      i do find it slightly curious why you wish to twist a simple answer to become a direct comment on pokerguru which it never was.

    • #30464
      richestuser
      Member

      as far as my knowledge goes about winning players online it shud be more that 20% atleast….
      yes if u r talking about live + online players then 3% may be true…because recreational players mostly play live and loose…

      My question was just a friendly question…. Since i know atleast 20 players on pokerguru who have wining stats on sharkscope….

      cheers..

    • #30465
      Jake Witcher
      Member

      you can trust me on that figure regarding online players it is very acurate and on that subject i am coming from a certain position of indepth knowledge.

      some sites will vary slightly but they average out at around 3%, the largest i have seen is 5% player population in positive over a year. (and that site was having liquidity issues as to many fish were being eaten by too many winners.)

    • #30325
      saby
      Member

      Interesting but a difficult question – Depends on the limit i would say… I am a winner at 2NL is that being a winning cash game player…cos i loose money at 25NL…. also depends on the number of hands… i remember nanonoko (Randy Lew) i solid winner at 200Nl with 2.5 BB/100 over 4 Mil handshad a downswing when he tried 1000NL + during that period will we call him a loosing player. again some games have a lot of variation sometimes players are breakeven over 50,000 hands.. Allan Jackson had a break even stretch over 50,000 hands.
      This question is impossible to answer till we fix the limit we are discussing and the number of hands that we consider. Even after that its a educated guess

    • #30470
      Jake Witcher
      Member

      Ok, my numbers are based on whole year, across all limits and game types. The numbers come from whole sites and networks (Igmaming, Cake, Ongame, Microgaming etc).

      My defintion personally of a winning player is one who at the end of the year, has more money than they have invested.

      If you made a separate condition, of say, the profit shown has to be enough to live off. So we woudl be talking about a professional player who pays his / her rent, food, travel, clothes, entertainment and all other costs. then we would have to come up with a a number for cost of living for two catergories. 1> tour players, those playing alot of events and tours and living on the cicuit. 2> thos players who live off poekr but arent ‘big time’ yet.
      it is also worth noting that sponsorship deals or other such arrangements are able to be taken into consideration as they are related but valid arrangements a player can make to alow them to play at a higher level then perhaps their bakrolls allow. What i mean to say is, if a player is sponsored on a package to play x number of events with y amount of expenses then that is fine and aslogn as that player shows a profit ontop of their own personal investment then they are a winning player even if the cost of the sponsorship to the site isnt covered in total profit shown by that player, the site has still determined that they have made the money back from the cost of sponsorship (or the contract isnt renewed)

    • #30594
      Sujith Raj
      Member

      3% – yeah pretty much the figure on any country.

      Indians
      online cash games – i dont think anyone is living off by playing online cash games alone . the number of guys who can put in the volume are by far n few and hence just a handful if they do exist. (online tourneys – yeah quite a few)

      but please do define “online cash game winning players” – are u looking for players who make consistent winning every session/month or players who have put in good volume 100,000+ at any limit and have come over the top with 2bb+/100 ?

    • #30601

      Online is not my domain but I would tend to agree that around 3% of the online player (world average) should be winning players. While in India the players are yet to catch up on that average and as Jake has put it, it should be around 2 to 2.5% of them.

      Adding here I tend to disagree with richestuser on one count. He says that cash players (live) are recreational players and so tend to lose mostly. I feel that good number of online players are also recreational players. Both set of players have similar track in terms of performance.

      I would not dispute that there must be 20 poker guru players who are “in the money” though I always believed it must be around 12-14 but be it 12 or 14 or 20, its very similar. But the active user base of Pokerguru should be around 400-500 or so by now I guess. So again 3% is in the same range of 15 or so. Here again it is very possible that pokerguru has more accomplished players enrolled while a lot of player who are not as good with their track can be thru other portals or directly under the poker site as there have been online players for 2-3 years for sure while pokerguru has started less than a year back. India should be having far more than just 1500 online players. I think the number should be well above that.

      Live gaming is active at Casinos in Goa and also at home games all over the country and also a few card rooms we keep hearing about. There are a few people whose names we keep hearing are regular winners at these venues (wherever they play on a regular basis). They are part of the winning community.

      Add to it, I think over the last 12-15 months, few people have taken up playing poker for a living. We call them professional poker players. In the initial period of this 12-15 months, few people lost and gave up poker and quit totally. Newer ones emerged like it always happens in every industry. But there are a few who are regular winners in live gaming as well. They are constantly winning and living off poker. They reside in Goa and play virtually everyday.

      So we have professional poker player in live gaming and also in online gaming as well in India. The percentage of winning player is a thing which is cannot be easily calculated as there are no declared numbers. But yes we have all kinds of categories of winning players – online cash game, online tourney, live cash and live tourney.

      India is potentially a very big market for any card room (live or online). We shall see exponential growth in it for the next few years. So long as the industry is let to survive without making it murky, we shall see it grow really fast. If things are made murky then it may be bad for all segments and specially the online segment which is operating like an “underground card room” in India as legally there are restrictions on it while live gaming which is legal in casinos may also get affected with this murk as it would dissuade players and put them off.

      I am personally optimistic about live and online in India and see a very big future for poker in India. India has a huge population and also rising income amongst the youth and add to it that the youth (0 to 40 years) is most of India’s population and lastly Indians are strong in maths as its conventionally believed and have a gambling acumen as well.

    • #30724

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    • #30947

      As someone mentioned earlier that it would be difficult to find that out as poker sites do not publish stats in india.
      But considering the fact that indians are good in Maths, I can certainly say the winning percentage should be slightly higher then that of other countries (or overall average).

    • #30950
      sunny sen
      Member

      As someone mentioned earlier that it would be difficult to find that out as poker sites do not publish stats in india.
      But considering the fact that indians are good in Maths, I can certainly say the winning percentage should be slightly higher then that of other countries (or overall average).

      not sure how math is related to poker winnings, except for basic pot odds dont think math is that relevant

    • #30951
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Agreed to an extend. Math in Poker is very different and has to be combined with a lot of other variables depending upon the format being played i.e. Tournaments, Cash Games or Online Poker

    • #31017

      not sure how math is related to poker winnings, except for basic pot odds dont think math is that relevant

      What u call “basics” are, I think, the most important aspect of poker (especially NL )

    • #24266

      3% – yeah pretty much the figure on any country.

      Indians
      online cash games – i dont think anyone is living off by playing online cash games alone . the number of guys who can put in the volume are by far n few and hence just a handful if they do exist. (online tourneys – yeah quite a few)

      but please do define “online cash game winning players” – are u looking for players who make consistent winning every session/month

      THIS was my definiton of winning player..ofc im talking about the regs not someone who plays 1k hands a month.

      Also @someone who mentioned about sharkscope – sharkscope is for tourneys not cash games.

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