live hand 100 200

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    • #26140
      Hardit
      Member

      hmm this is a hand that i played on a 100/200 live 25k game…

      i was at highjack position and other people involved were cutoff and button..

      i have kinda of a tag image and i had about 50k with me..
      cut off is an ultra pro kina player super good and usually plays stakes higher than 25k and he had around 100k
      button is a super tight player who usually plays 10k and is sitting with about 50k

      here is how the action went..

      it folds to me and i raise with 99 to 1100
      CO 3 bets to 4500
      button flats
      i flat
      flop is 567
      now normally i would bet here but i checked coz the tight player on the button flatted pre flop and i wanted to see what he would do..
      CO leads out with 10k and button flats again..

      Now this was an interesting point in the game..so kinldy post your comments on how u think i should have played …post which i ll post how the hand went and what i was thinking at this point … thanks….

    • #34502

      as i see it there are two options infront of you…shove or fold….and since you mentioned that button is a super tight player i suggest you fold here…..without any read i would shove here

    • #34503
      Soni
      Member

      I would def fold here. I kinda put Button on either eights, tens or jacks. I dont see him having anything other than this. I also dont think he will have eights here most of the times. So, its tens or jacks. Either way, you are most often beat here. Since, you have a TAG image and CO re-raised, I dont see button flat much there and if hez slowplaying with kings or aces, he would def re-raise on the flop. So, I would fold there. I wont suggest shoving your entire stack there without a solid read.

    • #34504

      I would fold here..

    • #34505
      saby
      Member

      Easy shove…CO is a pro grinder…a loose pro grinder…tight pro…?…but i think he would play his AK,AJ the same way….btn is super tight so he cant have hit this board unless he started with a PP…now since he is tight he is not playing 55,66,77 sp he does not have a set…maybe a higher PP…again since he is playing higher PP like JJ to AA i feel he would have 4 bet pre if he had these hands…so he does not have a PP at all…he has some thing like AK here… there is abt 30K in the pot so just shove it….if ur called in all likely hood he has AK etc and ur good against that…CO is a pro grinder he is C betting anything he started with…not sure abt his range cos i dont know what kind of a pro grinder he is…but 99 on this board should be good against his range most times to show a decent profit

    • #34510

      Easy shove…CO is a pro grinder…a loose pro grinder…tight pro…?…but i think he would play his AK,AJ the same way….btn is super tight so he cant have hit this board unless he started with a PP…now since he is tight he is not playing 55,66,77 sp he does not have a set…maybe a higher PP…again since he is playing higher PP like JJ to AA i feel he would have 4 bet pre if he had these hands…so he does not have a PP at all…he has some thing like AK here… there is abt 30K in the pot so just shove it….if ur called in all likely hood he has AK etc and ur good against that…CO is a pro grinder he is C betting anything he started with…not sure abt his range cos i dont know what kind of a pro grinder he is…but 99 on this board should be good against his range most times to show a decent profit

      button is super tight and still just flats 10K in a 14K pot with hero behind? alarm bells to me..
      ^^in this scenario tooling off 200bb+ w just medium over pair is a huge mistake imo..

    • #34512

      I am so lost in this hand. Is there any room for a squeeze 4b/fold pre ?
      I guess if you are calling pre, the attitude should be to setmine (specially since this is multiway OOP), and fold everything else, including something not-so-marginal like this (?) .

      We have Gutshot + overpair, and are possibly up against higher overpairs, and sets, small amount of pure air by CO, almost no floats by BU etc etc. Seems like an easy fold, or maybe not. I am so lost.

    • #34513
      saby
      Member

      well my read of tight guys is that they 4 bet…hardly ever will they flat AA,KK…i dont think there is any set possibility here from BTN since he is tight not playing 55,66 etc…CO is another story…but since CO is a pro 😛 he is c betting this flop with 100% of his range does CO have TT,JJ,QQ maybe but does he have that often enough for us the shove to be -EV long run..i think not

    • #34514

      well my read of tight guys is that they 4 bet…hardly ever will they flat AA,KK…i dont think there is any set possibility here from BTN since he is tight not playing 55,66 etc…CO is another story…but since CO is a pro 😛 he is c betting this flop with 100% of his range does CO have TT,JJ,QQ maybe but does he have that often enough for us the shove to be -EV long run..i think not

      why not?.. 55,66,77 can be profitably set mined.. they are 250bb eff deep..
      also AA/KK, with hero still to act pre also can be played this way..

      also just because c/o is a “God-ly” pro doesnt mean he always (or majority of the time) has air in his c/bets ..lmao..

      and if you think you are ahead, why shove? what are you getting called by? AK?

    • #34515
      Hardit
      Member

      hmm a lot of good reads and analysis. here but i did not shove or fold either…. like most of u i also made the perfect read but just got my self stuck ..

      @ saby .. the pro is more like a agro loose pro.. i wasnt worried of him too much..
      @ $$TtotheMFingROLL$$ u got one thing right bro ..i was indeed set mining here…

      so first let me say what i thought here.. well CO 3 bets a lot and he can have a wide range of hands here and he will bet even if he misses.. but i just could see him continuing this hand once the button has flatted again and if i made some play here..
      per flop i was puttin button on JJ, 10s, Aq or 88 ..well actually i was thinking more like Aq, 10s or jj and not so much 88s .coz anything else like ak aa qq will 4 bet and low pairs will fold given that i was after still to act after him …8s for me was the borderline grey area at that time..
      on the flop when he flatted i instantly narrowed him to 10s coz no other hand will flat and jj will raise.. forgive my simpleton thinking of just putting stuff in terms of folds and re-raises .. but here i made a play which i think had logic behind it but i got stuck..
      now i am putting him on 10s but i thought i can get him to fold that… i was 45k behind 225 freaking bb.. in hind sight would have been easiest to rep jj here but i guess i over-thought..i guess we need to widen our horizon on what i could have here.. i think i am the only player in the participants who can along with jj have 88 or 55 66 77 ..like 99s i could have set mine here with any of the smaller pairs too since pre flop action is ending on me…well to dig deeper i can also have suited connectors here.. but given my image less likely but possible..

      so what did i do .. i min raised… my reasons were a …given the pot size and the stack i got behind me .. it would look like i am trying to get the money in.. thus representing a monster.. and if i get called,….well practically any card on the turn except for a k q is a super good card for me to shove…

      now CO folded and button shoved…like $$TtotheMFingROLL$$ pointed out we have a over pair and a gutty here.. so i made the call.. he showed 10s and i sucked out on the turn by hittin a 9…sick but like i said i got myself stuck….

    • #34524
      Soni
      Member

      ^ bad play bro!! I dont agree with it and you were def behind as well. Too bad, you sucked out on him :p Like i said, he could only hv had 10s or Js.. and he called 10k on flop, he wasnt going anywhere.. So instead of getting him to fold his overpair, you should fold and let him take the pot :p You dont want him to make those hero folds because he wasnt gonna do that there..

      But, good, it worked out for u 🙂

    • #34533
      saby
      Member

      why not?.. 55,66,77 can be profitably set mined.. they are 250bb eff deep..
      also AA/KK, with hero still to act pre also can be played this way..

      also just because c/o is a “God-ly” pro doesnt mean he always (or majority of the time) has air in his c/bets ..lmao..

      and if you think you are ahead, why shove? what are you getting called by? AK?

      If it was me i would 4 bet 55,66 thats a good play IP with 250 BB…duno what u meen by 55,66,77 can be profitably setmined…yes it can be but thats not what a tight guy does….now as for CO i am never saying he has air…all i said is he is C betting 100% of the time…how did u interpret it to he has air…and lastly u shove when ur ahead cos u dont want them to see the turn. I think that how we play the game..bet/shove when ur ahead…fold when ur not….so flat with 99 or mr with 99 and a A,K falls on the turn…which is why u shove…99 is not the best of hand…and as $$TtotheMFingROLL$$ said ur set mining now u get a situation where u can shove the 99 profitably and so u do it…..

    • #34534
      sunny sen
      Member

      hmm a lot of good reads and analysis. here but i did not shove or fold either…. like most of u i also made the perfect read but just got my self stuck ..

      @ saby .. the pro is more like a agro loose pro.. i wasnt worried of him too much..
      @ $$TtotheMFingROLL$$ u got one thing right bro ..i was indeed set mining here…

      so first let me say what i thought here.. well CO 3 bets a lot and he can have a wide range of hands here and he will bet even if he misses.. but i just could see him continuing this hand once the button has flatted again and if i made some play here..
      per flop i was puttin button on JJ, 10s, Aq or 88 ..well actually i was thinking more like Aq, 10s or jj and not so much 88s .coz anything else like ak aa qq will 4 bet and low pairs will fold given that i was after still to act after him …8s for me was the borderline grey area at that time..
      on the flop when he flatted i instantly narrowed him to 10s coz no other hand will flat and jj will raise.. forgive my simpleton thinking of just putting stuff in terms of folds and re-raises .. but here i made a play which i think had logic behind it but i got stuck..
      now i am putting him on 10s but i thought i can get him to fold that… i was 45k behind 225 freaking bb.. in hind sight would have been easiest to rep jj here but i guess i over-thought..i guess we need to widen our horizon on what i could have here.. i think i am the only player in the participants who can along with jj have 88 or 55 66 77 ..like 99s i could have set mine here with any of the smaller pairs too since pre flop action is ending on me…well to dig deeper i can also have suited connectors here.. but given my image less likely but possible..

      so what did i do .. i min raised… my reasons were a …given the pot size and the stack i got behind me .. it would look like i am trying to get the money in.. thus representing a monster.. and if i get called,….well practically any card on the turn except for a k q is a super good card for me to shove…

      now CO folded and button shoved…like $$TtotheMFingROLL$$ pointed out we have a over pair and a gutty here.. so i made the call.. he showed 10s and i sucked out on the turn by hittin a 9…sick but like i said i got myself stuck….

      cll flop, fold turn unimproved, ur relative position is excellent., if CO is any good he will giveup air on the turn, flop min-raise is bad, tight live reg-fishes are not folding overpairs on this board after putting in 1/3rd of their stack on a board this wet

    • #34535

      If it was me i would 4 bet 55,66 thats a good play IP with 250 BB…duno what u meen by 55,66,77 can be profitably setmined…yes it can be but thats not what a tight guy does….now as for CO i am never saying he has air…all i said is he is C betting 100% of the time…how did u interpret it to he has air…and lastly u shove when ur ahead cos u dont want them to see the turn. I think that how we play the game..bet/shove when ur ahead…fold when ur not….so flat with 99 or mr with 99 and a A,K falls on the turn…which is why u shove…99 is not the best of hand…and as $$TtotheMFingROLL$$ said ur set mining now u get a situation where u can shove the 99 profitably and so u do it…..

      You are all over the place with your assumptions, bro.
      1. “If it was me i would 4 bet 55,66 thats a good play IP with 250 BB” : But it is not you here. Anyway lets say he plays like you and you 4b 55/66, what’s the plan if you get 5b?
      2. “.duno what u meen by 55,66,77 can be profitably setmined” : Means we have the implied odds this deep to hit our set.
      3. “but thats not what a tight guy does”: What does he do then?
      4. “and lastly u shove when ur ahead cos u dont want them to see the turn. I think that how we play the game..bet/shove when ur ahead…fold when ur not”: How can you be so sure that you are ahead? (dont want to be results oriented; but in this case you were not). When you shove 200bb there, you are only getting called by better. Anything worse than your hand is folding to your shove (and that includes AK which you somehow are hoping to get money from). The only hand which you may be ahead of and may call here would be 88 or at best 78.

    • #34536

      Pretty weird live type of spot.

      I think snap-jamming is pretty interesting, because the button seems like a very typical retard nit type. If you shove very confidently, he will fold lots of hands that have you dominated. With there already being 35k in the pot and around 45 in your stack, if you are ahead even a very small amount of the time and he folds even half the time this works out pretty well….

      It’s really important to note that typical Indian nit-fish flat this flop bet with hands they are not sure of. They would almost certainly raise with any hand they were very confident of.

      Btw Sunny: A question is most of your live experience in the USA? Asking because in my experience, Indian nit-fish manage to fold anything and everything but the nuts by putting you on monster-hands/any plausible hand that beats what they have.

    • #34537
      sunny sen
      Member

      ^^^ my casino exp is next to non-existant, i have played live in singapore,london and in the US, played cash in a casino<10 times lifetime, most live play has been in underground rooms and invite-only home games, most of which have been PLO/ROE, which was high sometime ago, but in recent times has been sporadic at best.

      Regarding the hand we are never ahead vs tight-btn, for all practical purposes AA=TT here, which makes shove/raise with 9s here pretty bad, also a point to keep in mind is that due to massively poor bet sizing in fishy live tables, u arent deep enough on the flop to put pressure on overpairs (one of the basic reasons why 5xing from LP/any P is super bad). This hand is pretty standard imo, online im folding flop even at deep 6max-tbls.

    • #34538
      saby
      Member

      You are all over the place with your assumptions, bro.
      1. “If it was me i would 4 bet 55,66 thats a good play IP with 250 BB” : But it is not you here. Anyway lets say he plays like you and you 4b 55/66, what’s the plan if you get 5b?
      2. “.duno what u meen by 55,66,77 can be profitably setmined” : Means we have the implied odds this deep to hit our set.
      3. “but thats not what a tight guy does”: What does he do then?
      4. “and lastly u shove when ur ahead cos u dont want them to see the turn. I think that how we play the game..bet/shove when ur ahead…fold when ur not”: How can you be so sure that you are ahead? (dont want to be results oriented; but in this case you were not). When you shove 200bb there, you are only getting called by better. Anything worse than your hand is folding to your shove (and that includes AK which you somehow are hoping to get money from). The only hand which you may be ahead of and may call here would be 88 or at best 78.

      Lol i was joking abt the 55,66,77 trying to say a nit does not set mine with these…. anyway if u think they do good enough…we should fold….and btw on the flop u dont have 200 BB and ur decisions are based on pot odds at that time not on how many bbs u started with…but again u know best…opps almost forgot u shove the flop now not to get called but to win whats there in the pot….no poker player would want to go to showdown cos to win he will have to have the best hand everytime and thats not possible…if we play like that then the rake wins…so the idea is to win without showdown…u dont want anything to call you when u have a marginal hand like 99 u shove to get folds…ur assuming btn calls i am assuming he has a range which he will fold often enough for us to profit….anyway i am sorry if this looked like a personal war i didnt mean to do it this way.

    • #34539
      Hardit
      Member

      @msoni.. definitely i was behind …i did put him on a hand.. well all did.. the point of my sharing this hand was that here we are in a situation where we have good idea of what the opponent has.. i mean u gotta think why did all of us put him on 10s or js…i eliminated js coz i think he would not flat that on the flop… having said this …i dont think it would easy to put me on a hand like 99s here …i can have anything thus it makes a very difficult decision for the button..so i can still win even if i am behind..

      @ rentdollarinplay i did have good relative position which is why i considered making a move even though there was a strong player behind me.. i guess that is also the reason i tried a stunt move instead of plain old shove…but interesting is that i could have called and then shoved on the turn.. flatting there would also have been a super strong signal..and as i said earlier any card other than a k q was super for me to shove.. plus i would have shoved with 35k …

      i definitely will not call and fold on turn .. coz i already know i am behind why an i calling just to hit … i will only float to make a move on the turn…in retrospect i think call and shove turn seems like a good move to me …

    • #34541

      Lol i was joking abt the 55,66,77 trying to say a nit does not set mine with these…. anyway if u think they do good enough…we should fold….and btw on the flop u dont have 200 BB and ur decisions are based on pot odds at that time not on how many bbs u started with…but again u know best…opps almost forgot u shove the flop now not to get called but to win whats there in the pot….no poker player would want to go to showdown cos to win he will have to have the best hand everytime and thats not possible…if we play like that then the rake wins…so the idea is to win without showdown…u dont want anything to call you when u have a marginal hand like 99 u shove to get folds…ur assuming btn calls i am assuming he has a range which he will fold often enough for us to profit….anyway i am sorry if this looked like a personal war i didnt mean to do it this way.

      never taking this personally bro and I am hoping you don’t take it personally either.. 🙂 .. we are here to learn .. you can pick up fallacy in my thought process and vice versa.. this ain’t a game of one upmanship here.. if I am shown that I am wrong I accept it and in fact thank the person cause he just made me better..

    • #34547
      sunny sen
      Member

      @msoni.. definitely i was behind …i did put him on a hand.. well all did.. the point of my sharing this hand was that here we are in a situation where we have good idea of what the opponent has.. i mean u gotta think why did all of us put him on 10s or js…i eliminated js coz i think he would not flat that on the flop… having said this …i dont think it would easy to put me on a hand like 99s here …i can have anything thus it makes a very difficult decision for the button..so i can still win even if i am behind..

      @ rentdollarinplay i did have good relative position which is why i considered making a move even though there was a strong player behind me.. i guess that is also the reason i tried a stunt move instead of plain old shove…but interesting is that i could have called and then shoved on the turn.. flatting there would also have been a super strong signal..and as i said earlier any card other than a k q was super for me to shove.. plus i would have shoved with 35k …

      i definitely will not call and fold on turn .. coz i already know i am behind why an i calling just to hit … i will only float to make a move on the turn…in retrospect i think call and shove turn seems like a good move to me

      why would the nuts open shove turn?

    • #26141

      Shove and when it gets hu with button, say u got the nuts and flash a 9. Ez game

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