live: river spot deep vs reverse

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    • #25856
      sunny sen
      Member

      local $10/10 club game, game is going fr a bit and few ppl are on a break, villain is FTOPS 08 ME winner “reverse” , speaks very very little, but is always with 2 massive tooly middle eastern/mediterranean(?) guys . He just busted a 200$ tourney and sat in maybe 30 mins. I have played with him live before in a tourney and he seems very very splashy,spewy and loose.

      Game is 5 handed right now and hero has very very active image from the blinds. Pretty sure that villain doesnt remember me or how i play from before, but probably views me as live aggro fish.

      UTG (??kish) limps
      reverse,CO (3kish) calls
      Hero BB (3.2k) 3bets 110 4h7h
      reverse calls 100

      flop(240) Ah Kc 7s
      hero bets 150, reverse calls 150

      turn (540) Kh
      hero checks, reverse bets 350, hero calls 350

      river (1240) Jh
      hero (about 2k effective behind)??

    • #33746

      I like a inducing weak defensive lead of about 500 here..

    • #33747

      ahh i’d check call

    • #33752

      Check Call!
      Villains is repping a King or better with the turn bet. In case he has a King, he will put a river value bet. In case he was bluffing, he will still bet.
      So check calling will get u max value, when you are ahead and lose least when you are behind (against 77, KJ, QhTh).
      Obv, I am assuming that he will always check behind a medium/weak ace on turn, so probability of him havin an ace is less!!

      Check raise (depending on his bet size) may also work coz u say he is spewy/loose and hence, might call with Kx …

    • #33755

      lose least when you are behind (against 77, KJ, QhTh).

      I maybe wrong but imo don’t think aggro/splashy villain is limping along ep with these hands.. thus I m trying to get full value.. i.e. stacks in.. weak lead has the capability to do that..

    • #33763

      Vinay, two things that I do not understand from your analysis.
      1) What hands you are putting villain on, which is consistent with action till river?
      2) Why you think weak lead is better than check raise?

    • #33765

      1. I am kind of capping his pre range at Axs Kxs x=weak, suited broadway combos or pp would have been iso-raised by him. thus K7s is the only hand I am worried about here.
      2. He would check down his Ax Kx (ok maybe not Kx) here imo.

      Edit: also note op’s self image of live aggro fish

      Edit: c/r will not be good here ofc cause only getting called by better. Kx will fold to c/r, thus we miss value.

    • #33766

      I would like views of the op himself here..lol.. as he is much better than you and me jagdeep.. :).. also would be great if raman/bhalla can spot this post and respond..

    • #33773
      sunny sen
      Member

      if villain has the Qh or Th then i guess he’ll be much more inclined to call a river c-jam. I dont have too much live experience and not sure if live players view river c-jams or weak leads and rejam as immensely strong. Not sure what line gets all the money in on the river.

    • #33775

      1. I am kind of capping his pre range at Axs Kxs x=weak, suited broadway combos or pp would have been iso-raised by him

      Not everyone plays like this. Trust me, I have seen many live players limping with broadways like KJo or pp “oop”. All depends on player tendencies.

      Anyways, I find your thought process somewhat confusing.

      1. You think he will b/f his Kx but jam your weak lead with Kx. Not sure why?

      2. You think he is smart enough to fold Kx to c/r on river but donk enough to bet his Ax on turn…

      Lets look at it objectively. lets say he has:
      1. Ax: Value bet > Weak lead > Jam > c/r
      2. Kx, QT(st8): c/r ~ jam > Value bet > Weak lead (if he is calling 2k jam in 1250 pot, he will call c/r too)
      3. Air: c/r > weak lead > value bet > jam
      4. KJ,K7,77: c/c > jam > weak lead > value bet

      Since I don’t put him on Ax, I will be comfortable with a c/r or c/c…

    • #33776

      The villain is a FTOPS ME winner..so he is capable.. and of course he can limp top ranges.. but his aggros splashy tendencies at that table makes me wana think he will be bloating pots rather than playing tricky..

      1. simple.. a “capable” player will not b/c here with Kx .. whereas he will def jam our weak lead with his Kx thinking we are defending our Ace pair and trying to get to a cheap s/d

      2. merit in what you are saying that he will not bet his Ax .. but he will bet his Kx for sure.. and also his air..

      Lets look at it objectively. lets say he has:
      1. Ax: Value bet > Weak lead > Jam > c/r
      2. Kx, QT(st8): c/r ~ jam > Value bet > Weak lead (if he is calling 2k jam in 1250 pot, he will call c/r too)
      3. Air: c/r > weak lead > value bet > jam
      4. KJ,K7,77: c/c > jam > weak lead > value bet

      Since I don’t put him on Ax, I will be comfortable with a c/r or c/c…

      1. ok. agree
      2. disagree.. as put earlier he is not b/c (he is b/f).. also jam looks super strong after our check call on turn
      3. he may still decide to jam on weak lead thinking we are taking a b/f line.. so now c/r will get you around a half pot bet, weak lead will get stacks in.. what is better will again depend on the probability of his actions in each scenario..
      4. ok. agree.

    • #33777

      if villain has the Qh or Th then i guess he’ll be much more inclined to call a river c-jam. I dont have too much live experience and not sure if live players view river c-jams or weak leads and rejam as immensely strong. Not sure what line gets all the money in on the river.

      dont play much live as well.. but river c-jams live reek strength here.. hardly any bluffs or even blocker bluffs

    • #33791
      sunny sen
      Member

      ended up overbet jamming the river

    • #33796

      ended up overbet jamming the river

      did not get a call i guess

    • #33832
      4better
      Member

      dont like overbet jam…they way the hands played out it just seems like u have flush or q10 on river….with j coming on river it seems less likely u would shove your qj or j10….which i feel are your only two bluffing hands here.

    • #33834
      sunny sen
      Member

      dont like overbet jam…they way the hands played out it just seems like u have flush or q10 on river….with j coming on river it seems less likely u would shove your qj or j10….which i feel are your only two bluffing hands here.

      yea jam is questionable, probably self-levelled into trying to make line as fishy as possible, esp without blockers

    • #33835
      sunny sen
      Member

      did not get a call i guess

      u havent played with reverse im guessing 😉 ?

    • #25857

      u havent played with reverse im guessing 😉 ?

      lol.. not even played 1/2nl yet

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