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    • #25986

      PokerStars Hand #86866056065: Tournament #618010395, $20+$2 USD Hold’em No Limit – Level XXIV (1200/2400) – 2012/09/28 16:25:35 ET
      Table ‘618010395 22’ 9-max Seat #7 is the button
      Seat 1: Ironic13 (94794 in chips)
      Seat 2: oxximoron1 (198968 in chips)
      Seat 4: gugom (154790 in chips)
      Seat 5: 0luckywater0 (50292 in chips)
      Seat 6: tivasc (53498 in chips)
      Seat 7: intervntion (137850 in chips)
      Seat 8: Ice B (78684 in chips)
      Seat 9: roroq (47408 in chips)
      Ironic13: posts the ante 300
      oxximoron1: posts the ante 300
      gugom: posts the ante 300
      0luckywater0: posts the ante 300
      tivasc: posts the ante 300
      intervntion: posts the ante 300
      Ice B: posts the ante 300
      roroq: posts the ante 300
      Ice B: posts small blind 1200
      roroq: posts big blind 2400
      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to intervntion [Ad Jd]
      oxximoron1 said, “nice”
      Ironic13: raises 2400 to 4800
      oxximoron1: folds
      gugom: folds
      0luckywater0: folds
      tivasc: folds
      intervntion: calls 4800
      Ice B: folds
      roroq: calls 2400
      *** FLOP *** [7c Ah 3c]
      roroq: checks
      Ironic13: checks
      intervntion: bets 6750
      roroq: folds
      Ironic13: raises 7650 to 14400
      intervntion: calls 7650
      *** TURN *** [7c Ah 3c] [Ac]
      Ironic13: bets 17895
      intervntion: calls 17895
      *** RIVER *** [7c Ah 3c Ac] [Kd]
      Ironic13: bets 57399 and is all-in
      intervntion:

    • #34142

      imo, flop c/r from the initial pre opener looks very strong on a A high board (though two-tone).
      If he was doing this as a semi with a club draw, it got there.
      There could be some air in his range as well as he decided to c/r the button who the villain thinks would be taking a stab after it is folded to him. (Air could be a lower pp which he decided to turn into a bluff; a bit fancy but still possible since we are read-less. In this case – the air bluff – it would be more often than not just one c/r and give up).
      Now the only hand we beat is a weak Ax(J-). Again, since we are read-less, this is a possible as well. Based on the combos of these hands left and the weird but possible for a Ax(J-) line, I am more inclined to fold here. We are more often ‘not good’ than ‘good’ here.

      Edit: Just did the math; 58K to win 140K-ish. Need to be right 1 in 3.5 to even up. I estimate we are not.

    • #34143

      I’d call here. It’s pretty close but readless quite a percentage of players can and will do this with a random ace that they think is good. If they play AK or AQ this way, they’ll also play Ax this way too (since neither is anywhere close to being nutted at any stage whatsoever) ….

      I’d also say this is a pretty bizzare way to play any hand that is now a flush (which is not to say that people wouldn’t do it).

      There’s also a definitely non-zero component of random retarded bluffs in his range and I’m not sure how to evaluate it.

      I’d def say they can’t be very many flushes in his range because the Ac is on the board, and its really unusual for him to do this weird c/r with hand like T9cc etc..

      I’d call because the line doesn’t make a whole lot of sense and we don’t need to be right too often.

    • #34144
      Aditya Sushant
      Participant

      Cant believe u posted Adi :D. I’ll keep my reply short. I think river’s a fold. Cant beat any of his value range, dont see him bluffing much.

    • #34145

      i would re-raise both turn and flop…and if he comes over the top in turn then its a fold…..i think he is holding a suited connector……although very tough spot to fold

    • #34147

      Thoughts on 3b/f pre ?

      Our line looks like we are holding AX, Flushes a lot, and this does not seem to worry the villain at all, he just isnt slowing down one bit. I really dont think there are any bluffs in his range here. I dont even think he is shoving a lesser Ax hand OTR like that for fear of losing value. It looks a LOT like a set, FD (KcQc) that got there OTT, and is looking to get value from the exact hand that we have. Very tough River decision tbh, laying this would be a disciplined thing to do. Also given stacks OTR, its somewhat like we are bluff-catching at this point. If he is running a random bluff like this, good for him, we just cant call here without reads.

    • #34148
      sunny sen
      Member

      fold turn

    • #34149
      Arturo
      Member

      i put him on 7’s ,…. so i fold turn here

    • #34161
      Karan M
      Member

      On surface it looks like he setted on the flop and is getting in with the best hand. I am not someone who could say how you could have played the hand but I would definitely check on flop as there would always be a c-bet and then raise him to gauge his hand strength. The only hand you could beat is KcQ as it could possibly be a standard raise on flop and once the 4 to flush pulls up fires out again. I am not sure he would dump all chips with non-nutted ace on a flushed board.

    • #34162

      I cant see someone flopping a set and then checking that board with fd (possible but less probable). And if you were pre-flop raiser and you flopped a fd, u will bet it a lot of times. It smells either a bluff or Ax. I will call just because this line is not making a lot of sense. He may have us beat sometimes by playing his flush this way but that does not mean folding is more profitable than calling here!.

    • #34305
      4better
      Member

      fold turn hes always jamming river and he must put you on Ax at least

    • #34332
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      UTG min raised and could be playing a vast range of hands right from KQc, 9Tc, 45c to 77, 33, KK/QQ/JJ or AK, AQ, A7/A3 or even Ax.

      Since he doesn’t have a read on you either, he may put you on a weak Ace or a small flush draw and hence check raise you. It is again a sort of min raise, suggesting he is value mining – taking the pot to a total 44K+

      More value mining on the turn, he bets 17K, less than 40% of pot, despite a club flush board – either he has a v strong hand to not fear a small flush you may hold – he provides value for you to call. OR he demonstrates weakness while holding the nuts, inviting you to shove on top.

      So why does he shove on the river 57K into a pot of 78K- does he expect you to call? Or to fold?

      Did he min raise with AQ? Or with Ax (and two of the rags 3 and 7 give him a full house). If he held AK, A3, A7, 33, 77, he’d shove either to be seen as ‘stealing the pot’, expecting a call from you. Or to not to give you an option to check, hoping you’ve hit your flush draw or have a lesser full house or Trips Aces and will pay him off. Or he has AQ/ AJ and puts you on a weaker Ace.

      Or he has an ace weaker than you and is just making a move.

      The pot already has 30 bbs when he shoves 24bbs into it. I’ll tank and fold to prevent being reduced from 44 BBs to 20 BBs behind – and wait for a spot an orbit or two later once I have a read on him and the rest of the table. There are just too many hands that beat AJ. And – as Vinay points, the math doesn’t seem right either (1 to 3.5)

      But if the call meant staking my tournament life or being reduced to 15bb or less, I’d fold far swifter.

    • #34333

      I’ve already expressed my thoughts on the hand, so I won’t add much.

      That said, I have to comment that if you already know what you are going to do tanking either for long or short period doesn’t do anything except to waste time and irritate people. Unless this is your intention why would you tank longer or shorter if you were going to fold anyway.

    • #34334
      sunny sen
      Member

      I’ve already expressed my thoughts on the hand, so I won’t add much.

      That said, I have to comment that if you already know what you are going to do tanking either for long or short period doesn’t do anything except to waste time and irritate people. Unless this is your intention why would you tank longer or shorter if you were going to fold anyway.

      but if i put on my designer shades and pull the hoodie at about 30 degrees to the left of my face, adjust my pokerstars cap pulling it from front to back, can i tank? brownie points fr hollywooding one time

    • #34335

      but if i put on my designer shades and pull the hoodie at about 30 degrees to the left of my face, adjust my pokerstars cap pulling it from front to back, can i tank? brownie points fr hollywooding one time

    • #34336
      sunny sen
      Member

      ^^^

    • #25987
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      prabhat – Tanking not for hollywooding, but to consider all the hand ranges and to arrive at the fold decision if I have a 60-70BB stack.

      Under 15 BB or at tournament life risk, it is a swifter decision.

      Much as I’m taken in by snap calls and instafolds, I sometimes want to consider carefully all the hand ranges, relative stacks, stage of tourney, player profiles (if I wait, can I get some LAG or calling station’s stack), my rhythm that day (somedays I’m unfazed by the possibility of a under 10 bb stack behind if I call someone’s shove; some other days I want to avoid marginal hands and preserve stack to pick a spot later) – so tanking is perfectly legit on occasion.

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