pre-flop spot with AQo.. awkward stack.. what is correct or optimal.. fold/call?

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    • #25738

      have boomed this hand cause its not a result oriented thing…

    • #33492

      call here vinay mostly these clowns have some small pairs which they dont want to see a flop with just call.

    • #33498

      That’s lol-bad. Call this every single time. Folding here is just ridiculous.

    • #33503

      why is it an awkward stack. you have 80BBs … doing anything there is fine, as long as its not fold. Like danish Said, and in my experience, usually people who open 2.5-3x regularly, and then suddenly make it 5x, its usually low PPs that they cant fold, and dont wanna see a flop with. just play post flop and PWN him.

    • #33519

      80bb yo.. Call atleast.. Also Vinay in these spots, Like adi would say, Stove the hand for a better picture…

    • #33520

      Ok. This hand I posted is related to my struggles at doing the correct thing at early stages. I have noted this (too much folding tendencies early) in my blog as well. All suggestions I have got on this post and when I skyped to PGM group were to call and of course the odd LOL that I even posted this .. 🙂

      Anyway, taking a cue from Samoh above and for my own satisfaction, I have tried to see how this works out in math. Cant stove this hand but can attempt to solve it in a different way. The result was a no-brainer “call”. But I would like to share it below. Again feel free to point out mistakes in math or my thought process.

      Ok. We are in position but facing a 5x raise which represents 6% of our stack (and at 81 bb).

      The villain has not shown any aggrotard tendencies. His raise is from early position and is 5x. I think we can safely assign him a range of medium pp without being too presumptuous.

      Now when I call in position with AQo against his range, I am looking at hitting my 6 outer or my bluff outs which are basically broadway cards on the flop. If we dont hit the above, imo it will be very risky and fancy to outplay him. Infact many of us may play fit or fold on the flop and in that case we are looking at only hitting the 6 outer.

      Let’s see what I stand to win in case I hit the above:

      75 in pot from the blinds
      250 open from villain

      325 in pot, 250 to call.

      Now whatever flop comes, we are getting cbet almost every time. The cbet would be around 400ish in pot of 575 imo. Now we go further into this hand we hit the flop with our 6outer/bluff outs and let’s assume we do hit it. We may elect to c/r or bet the turn when villain shuts down. When we c/r or bet ott; villain essentially gives up unless he improves. He is not (or lets say the odds are extremely low) stacking off with med pp with overcards on board.

      Thus the implied profit from our earlier call of 250 is 725 (or approx 3 to 1).
      Now the odds of hitting the flop with 6 outs: 33% (or 2 to 1)
      And the odds of hitting the flop with AQKJ (not including T here) 14 outs: 66% (or 1 to 2)
      In case villain is a total nit and just shuts down after seeing a bad flop our profit is 325 for a call of 250 (Or 1.3 to 1)

    • #33542
      Arjun Parmar

      u are deep and u are ip… u should have called there…

    • #25739

      You have the button and facing one raiser .. how can fold here ?
      Only decision is whether to call or re-raise ..

      I doubt he is 5 betting AA or KK unless you have some sort of read/notes that he tends to do that.

      If you have a read that he is betting medium pairs like that then definitely worth re-raising if he has a tendency to be tight and fold.
      Options vary depending on the type of player and tendencies he has. You only mention he is not an aggrotard .. but that doesn’t explain his bet of 5x … lots of players regularly do that because they have a very vulnerable pair 55, 66 , 77 and do want to let them go.

      The general reason they overbet is

      a) they do not want 5 to the flop
      b) he wants information on hands that call
      c) if they only call he can usually safely c-bet most flops and take it down.

      Now generally here I would simply go with that read on his play and come over the top of his bet; if he is not an aggressive player he more likely to fold a medium pair ..

      I can then re-evaluate my decision depending on whether he calls or re-raises.

      You cannot fold here purely on a maths decision … you have to see a flop at the bare minimum. The only real decision here is whether to call or raise.

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