Rate the river play

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    • #25435
      sunny sen
      Member

      Villain seems to be decent reg, he doesnt like to give up in almost any spots post flop and is fighting for every pot, tightish preflop and has folded to to 80%+ 3 bets (hence the flat pre by me), he is c-betting a ton, he is 4 bet calling most pairs pre (saw him do it with 55, 8, 2 tabling him

      BetmostPoker – $2 NL (2 max) – Holdem – 2 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
      SB raises to $6, Hero calls $4

      Flop: 6 5 Q
      Hero checks, SB checks

      Turn: 3
      Hero bets $10.00, SB raises to $26, Hero calls $16

      River: 8

      Hero checks, SB bets $52, Hero raises $176.85 and is all in

      Thoughts on the jam?
      What hand does villain need to call here?

    • #32726

      His flop checkback looks sort of suspicious. He’s always cbetting raised pots unless, He has hit big and wants you to catch up or a weak Qx type hand that he does not want to get check-raised with. His turn raise confirms the former, since the board is getting real wet, he wants to extract value from draws, and protect his hand. He continues to tell the same story on river, but sort of makes it look like he wants to buy the pot cause of your weak check. I give up river. Shove is not good here I think, mainly because of the line he has taken + Not much fold equity against 2pair sort of hands.

      Again, I might be completely wrong and have leveled myself 😉 , but thats a part of HU poker.

      River play Rating : bout tree fiddy. 😀

    • #32728
      Arturo
      Member

      i dont think he have flush or straight here the only thing i am worried about his sets, he might have AQ or KQ type of hand which he is not calling on your river raise. Its Well played by you on river.

    • #32729
      Simon Mint
      Participant

      I am not qualified to respond to this as I don’t play cash and not at this stakes anyway. But what I don’t understand is why is HERO leading the action every time? Shouldn’t the SB be acting first?

    • #32732

      It’s HU yo.. Sb is the button in HU

    • #32733
      Simon Mint
      Participant

      Good thing I’m not playing cash. Thx Vinay.

    • #32735

      Well its pretty close…but I think Villain is not folding any Bluff catcher here… by which I mean QJ+
      He will call this with every overpair/set ….
      I highly doubt a two pair / flush / straight ..

      Heads Up he going to bet flush draw in position…. a check on the flop seems wierd.

      About the Jam…I feel wrong.
      In first sight it looks as desperation bluff / shove.

      I play NL25e NL50e max Heads up….so cant be very sure…as the dynamics is totally different at the stakes u are playing…..

      But I would analyze it as follows..
      If you had KQ/ AQ / or any over pair… you would/should have 3b me pre flop.
      Secondly… flopping a set, then calling the min raise on turn …you loose value. and the board is getting flatter to extract on river. So he knows u didnt flop a set.
      If you did rivered a flush…. You wouldnt have shoved… as you dont expect him to call with a pair. So you will check raise decent…. probably 130 140 range.

      So if i was villain i would call this most of the times.

    • #32736
      sunny sen
      Member

      @saransh: villain never has Qj+ or overpair here, since u play HU think on the lines that he is a reg (nt a random or fish) and his range is capped here, mine is not .. what do think is the absolute best hand he can have?
      btw i play a ton of 50nlhu also 🙂

      @ROLL: villain isnt likely to check big made hands on flop for deception as he knows that he is c betting a ton and im seldom folding to his super high frequency cbets esp on this board, checking with a big made hand here is a very advanced play and difficult to give him credit fr that

      @shark : SB has the btn

    • #32738

      hmm.. really hard to give accurate advice about HU play, as there is so much dynamics , and cards hardly even matter after a point of time.
      Anways, let us know what were your thoughts and how the hand went down .

    • #32739

      interesting hand. i wud like to call ur rivr shv creative but im kinda leaning more towards spewy. then again against a reg who u hav dynamic with, i might be judging this wrongly.

      then again, wat range of hands did u put him on otr/wat range of hands were u trying to get him to fold? any idea wat kinda hands he tends to not cbet against u?

      as described by u, i wud think he wud fast play his sets otf. so we can rule those out. he cud be checking back a mid strength hand like 2nd or 3rd pair, maybe even a weak Qx for pot control cus the board is so wet..he cud also hav a weak hand with almost no eq like 42 that he’s checking back.

      Ott wen he raises u tho, i doubt its with a complete bluff cus its a bad spot to be doing it. so i wud lean towards his range having good semi bluff hands/combo hands and 2p+ hands. His riv bet sizing seems strong and I dont think ur shv is gonna work often enough even against the bottom of his value range. The few hands he might fold are only ones ur beating anyways. So I do think ur river shv is bad in conclusion.

    • #32754
      sunny sen
      Member

      then again, wat range of hands did u put him on otr/wat range of hands were u trying to get him to fold? any idea wat kinda hands he tends to not cbet against u?

      the absolute best hand he can have here is 333

    • #32755

      Yes sunny….. Villain never has QJ+ or overpair…. or any single pair… on the river….
      At the last post I was wondering what can villain possibly call here with…

      The absolute best hand he can possibly have is set of 3… as u said or turned straight (likely).
      The villain will have a lot of 4X of diamonds which he will play similarly (A4 diamonds… K4diamonds)

      Is he checking a lot of 2nd pairs/3rd pairs on flop??? In such cases I wouldnt shove river…because then he might have a lot of 2 pairs?? (what do you think)

      This kind of play is very advanced… and totally depends on dynamics and players and momentum of the game at that point. I think yourself can judge this best.

    • #32756
      sunny sen
      Member

      Yes sunny….. Villain never has QJ+ or overpair…. or any single pair… on the river….
      At the last post I was wondering what can villain possibly call here with…

      The absolute best hand he can possibly have is set of 3… as u said or turned straight (likely).
      The villain will have a lot of 4X of diamonds which he will play similarly (A4 diamonds… K4diamonds)

      Is he checking a lot of 2nd pairs/3rd pairs on flop??? In such cases I wouldnt shove river…because then he might have a lot of 2 pairs?? (what do you think)

      This kind of play is very advanced… and totally depends on dynamics and players and momentum of the game at that point. I think yourself can judge this best.

      weak 3rd pair is definitely in his flop check back range, advanced play would be if he checks back the flop with a set to rep a capped range (basically repping a 2 pr picked up on the turn or set on the turn) and then bet call river with his flopped set as he realizes that he can never have a flush while i can credibly rep a flush and try and take him off his hand which looks capped …

      its hard to give an ok reg that much credit though ..

      i rep the flush pretty well, 2 pairs should fold, 333 has a super tough call and should fold a large % …

    • #32829

      weak 3rd pair is definitely in his flop check back range, advanced play would be if he checks back the flop with a set to rep a capped range (basically repping a 2 pr picked up on the turn or set on the turn) and then bet call river with his flopped set as he realizes that he can never have a flush while i can credibly rep a flush and try and take him off his hand which looks capped …

      its hard to give an ok reg that much credit though ..

      i rep the flush pretty well, 2 pairs should fold, 333 has a super tough call and should fold a large % …

      So he folded??? or called??
      it would be difficult to fold set thr….
      secondly Headsup….dont u think representing flush or identifying flush is little bit tricky??
      How you generally tackle such boards??

    • #32833

      River shove – depends:) His bet is sooo polarized. Hence i think calling is better. A little more info about villain would help though. Dont you think he’d call with two pair a lot here since he’s been so aggro and he’d know that you’d adjust? Or am i just levelling myself? Im guessing you played it this way since he almost never has a flush considering his line, but i doubt he’s folding he’s folding two pair too often since he has to be right just around 30% of the time. But like i said, depends on how thin you guys were value betting till this hand. Coz if you weren’t value betting thin then two pair is as good as a set here since your raise would be polarized. PS: this is why i don’t play heads up :p

    • #32836
      sunny sen
      Member

      So he folded??? or called??
      it would be difficult to fold set thr….
      secondly Headsup….dont u think representing flush or identifying flush is little bit tricky??
      How you generally tackle such boards??

      this is how a flush would play majority of the time in a reg vs reg match, if i had 2 pair there i would definitely just call the river bet as villain has turned set in his range, decent/ok regs would be knowing this, the check-shove reps the flush that got there, also our 9h blocks some of his straight combos,

      also not sure about ur bolded part which boards?

      River shove – depends:) His bet is sooo polarized. Hence i think calling is better. A little more info about villain would help though. Dont you think he’d call with two pair a lot here since he’s been so aggro and he’d know that you’d adjust? Or am i just levelling myself? Im guessing you played it this way since he almost never has a flush considering his line, but i doubt he’s folding he’s folding two pair too often since he has to be right just around 30% of the time. But like i said, depends on how thin you guys were value betting till this hand. Coz if you weren’t value betting thin then two pair is as good as a set here since your raise would be polarized. PS: this is why i don’t play heads up :p

      as said earlier 2 pair is a definite fold here, also villain’s bet is not that polarized, he isnt repping the nuts, he is repping a 2pr, set (discounting straights due to blockers),
      interesting that some of you would call with a set here, in villain’s shoes im bet folding a set …

      also call is by far the worst option here as his line is heavily weighted towards value which has our 1pr crushed at showdown, we either check here to c-fold or c-jam if the perfect card hits .. if the flush doesnt come in on the river im check folding 100% of the time ..

      another thing to remember here is tht we are playing a decent reg , vs monkeys/fish/randoms snap fold river

    • #32840

      by polarized i meant he has a really strong hand with which he’s not folding. His bet kinda makes it look like he wants to commit himself on the river.

      I still think its polarized and think calling here isn’t the worst option. His line is quite weird and i think he would have air here a lot of the time.

      I think in general he’d bet all his draws and pairs on the flop. on the turn i cant see a hand that makes sense. 47 would bet the flop, i would bet 36 and 35 too. Hence i think his range is quite small. Either hit some strong hand on the flop itself, 33 or turned a big draw. Something like a naked flush draw or even something like A4dd or so. Hence i like a call.

    • #32865
      sunny sen
      Member

      by polarized i meant he has a really strong hand with which he’s not folding. His bet kinda makes it look like he wants to commit himself on the river.

      I still think its polarized and think calling here isn’t the worst option. His line is quite weird and i think he would have air here a lot of the time.

      I think in general he’d bet all his draws and pairs on the flop. on the turn i cant see a hand that makes sense. 47 would bet the flop, i would bet 36 and 35 too. Hence i think his range is quite small. Either hit some strong hand on the flop itself, 33 or turned a big draw. Something like a naked flush draw or even something like A4dd or so. Hence i like a call.

      a decent reg would usually not take this bluffy looking line with air as he should realize that he is repping a very narrow value range and gets looked up often by the kind of hand tht i have

    • #25436
      Arturo
      Member

      what was result ?

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