March 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm #24071Sujith RajMember
consider the pre-flops to be 3 or 4 bet ones
1) My hand – AcAdKcTs
flop – As8s9d
he bets, i re-raise, he calls or i bet he calls
turn – As8s9d -Jc (he made straight?)
turn – As8s9d -2s (he made flush?)
turn – As8s9d -Td (he made str8 or has monster draws now?)
he bets the pot or i bet the pot he reshoves – what should I do ? – call , re-raise or muck ?
(im folding most of the time here) – correct play or massive leak ??
2) Same hand as above but also consider I have a gutshot draw to the nuts
Outs = 1A(quads) + 3×3(9 cards to a full) + 4(completing gutshot) = 14 outs
call or muck ?
March 27, 2011 at 3:28 pm #30067Aditya SushantMember
Depends on a lot of things. You know your outs. If you know you’re beat for sure, u just hav to calculate the odds u are getting and see if ur getting the right odds for the outs u hav and play accordingly. Sometimes, u wont be getting the right odds but u have to factor in implied odds. If the guy is a fish and u know he’s going to pay off a decent/pot sized bet every time on the river, its always worth calling. Depends on other stuff too. If u dont hav much behind and u’ve already put in a lot, then also u hav to get it in.
Oh and also in 2nd hand, ur adding u hav a gutshot draw. But from wat ur implicating, ur saying he has the nuts already right. So then a gutshot draw to the nut str8 isnt worth much..will only help u chop the pot
March 28, 2011 at 10:10 am #30086DennyMember
Is this a regular table ??? do you have an image of folding on tricky boards; he may only have trips the same as you 88 99 and hoping you are drawing or only have two pair with a draw; or he has an A8 A9 … it largely depends on the knowledge or your read of the “opponent” … also why bet large …. why not check call … if you bet the pot you allow it mushroom out of control quickly and put more pressure on your decision making …. If it is a regular table/players then simply they could be pressuring you as they know you will fold … not everyone bets only when they have the nuts … also some players just have more money than sense and will try bullying … to be honest the information is only based on what hands can he have that beats you and that is an incomplete picture on which to assess what is going on … all factors need to be considered including his image .. hands seen at showdown .. what is 4bet calling hands …. does he bluff … is he tight solid .. loose agressive … stack sizes … stakes. In PLO you are going to simply take more risks and I doubt I am folding AA in the situations you describe , but neither am I willing to bloat the pot on the flop with pot sized bets .. when there is already flush and straight draw possibilites unless I know they are going to fold their hands .. In short the situation entirely depends on your opponents tendencies and your read of him more than the board and with the outs I think you should be calling … sorry for rambling but the question is one of incomplete information and more generalised than specific and as such difficult to give an specific answer.
March 28, 2011 at 12:28 pm #30092Sujith RajMember
thanks guys, yea its situational. (200bb deep)
im cornered to a point where if i call he has the nuts, if i fold (he had or didn’t have me crushed)…
online poker has bullied me to be gun shy just like daniel negreanu who asks gus do u have one of these or folds a better flush after a big bet by benyamine (hsp season 6).
March 28, 2011 at 1:08 pm #24072DennyMember
If you are afraid to call without the stone cold nuts then you have a problem .. either you are playing stakes that are too high .. the wrong game (try limit Omaha maybe? or move back to TH). Sometimes you simply need to make the call a) to keep players honest and b) also gain vital information as to what they are doing/up to and make notes on them if you play them on a regular basis or likely to come across them again.
But yes it is situational and the only advice is to try keeping pots smaller by betting less preflop and creating the “pot” after the flop, which gives you the opportunity to bet on less scary boards and check call if you don’t like the board. The theory being you should able to get to see the river and for approx the same amount you might have been prepared to invest preflop and on the flop only having to fold the hand ??
Obviously you are gaining less should you win .. but you are not losing as much if you still decide to fold on the turn .. (sorry this makes sense to me, but I might not be explaining it properly) and you can still call the turn having invested much less to this point and make your final decision on the river .. your opponent may also decide to give up on the river if he was still drawing and missed.
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