Too hard to fold picture pockets?

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    • #25359
      Monisha Jain
      Member

      Hi,

      2 hands I played in the recent IPS 5k re-entry tournament. Both hands were the exact same scenario, but in one I got a favorable result, and in the other I got busted.

      Hand 1: Level 4 of the tourney. Blinds: 200/100. Starting stack was 5k. I had about 7k at this point. I get pocket jacks. A short-stacked tournament organizer ‘A’ (not Bharat) limps. 2 other callers. I raise to 1100. A calls, others fold. Flop is rainbow 4 7 10. A shoves his stack of about 2.5k. I look at his stack and the fact that he had limped initially, and call his shove. He had 6 10, and I win the hand.

      Hand 2: Down to 17 players. Blinds: 400/200, ante 25. I have 12k chips. I get pocket Queens. I raise to 1500. 2 callers. One person B is a regular final table finisher with stack of about 15k, and second person C is a short-stacked first time tourney player with about 4k chips. Flop is 4d 9c Jc. I raise to 2500 (should I have raised more here?). B shoves his stack. C shoves as well. I wasn’t too worried about C, but I thought for a moment if B had pockets. But since there was a flush draw and a straight draw on the board, or the possibility that he had A T, A J, I thought he was trying to jam me, and I call. B shows pocket 4s for a set, and I get busted from the tourney.

      In hand 2, given that he had a bigger stack size than me, and that he had called my initial raise of 1500, should I have put him on a set and folded my queens?

    • #32519

      Hand 1 : standard.
      Hand 2 : raise less imo ..800 to 1000.. if u get too much heat on the flop u could get away from the hand without bleeding too much.. anyway the way it played.. flop bet was good.. but fold to the shove.. a tourney reg would not go bonkers like this unless he has hit something hard or has a huge huge draw..

    • #32520
      shashank.s
      Member

      Hand 1: Seems pretty standard.
      Hand 2: If u had raised say 1000 pre & 1500-1800 on flop. U can still fold when he shoves n be left with an effective stack of 14-16 bb. Which would still give u a fighting chance. Have to agree to Vinay, don’t see how a reg has much worse here… FOLD !!!

    • #32525

      Hi riverdiva, you really shouldn’t post results. Just tell us the action. No need to tell us what they had or what the results was. People will just answr according to results and you will get less useful advice.

      That said, your thinking is wrong. You shouldn’t be looking for ways to fold big pocket pairs or being results oriented.

      Hand 1: Is very standard. “I look at his stack and the fact that he had limped initially, and call his shove. He had 6 10, and I win the hand.”

      No need to look at anything! 3300 chips in pot and he shoves for 2500 and you have an overpair to the board. There is no reason to think about anything here. Easiest call ever. I would call much weaker hands here given this situation.

      Hand 2: Don’t raise to 1500 pre just make it 800 or 850. Nice c-bet, easy call. Don’t be results oriented…he might have had a set here but in the long run this call is fine.

      @ Shashank, Vinay and Riverdiva: This is why I said DONT post results. If you hadn’t posted that this “reg” (who made a terrible call preflop with 44) hit a set, none of these guys would have told you to fold here. Folding QQ on this flop with 14 BB behind and literally 70 BB in the pot is just terrible in my opinion.
      You need to stop being so scared of getting your money in when you have good hands and good equity. Especially @ Vinay and Shashank any good player gets it in here with combo draws, draws, top pair good kicker, etc. its just silly to fold QQ here..you need only around 29% equity and I actually think you are good most of the time, so folding is just atrocious.

    • #32530
      shashank.s
      Member

      @Prabhat: I have gone over this hand again n I have to agree my evaluation the first time around was way off. Although the exact pot size is not mentioned, its a call of 8k for a pot of 21k, which is mathematically good enough for a call.

      @Riverdiva
      : As Prabhat has mentioned the fact that the villain is reg,also suggests that he could easily be shoving with combo draws, draws, top pair good kicker, etc, which they are capable of doing,depends really on how you look at it. So call is good. But the sizing of ur raise n c-bet should you be toned down.

    • #32532

      shashank- she bet 2500 into a 6k pot…how much lower do you want it? Seems fine. No need to find fault with her play just because some clown caught a set….still residual result orientation left i think…this is why i hate threads whr results are posted.

    • #32538
      shashank.s
      Member

      @ Prabhat – I meant in terms of pre flop raise, this late in the tournament, with the FT approaching shouldn’t the open be more like 2-2.5 BB (not only in this particular hand, IN GENERAL)

    • #25360

      Yeah, I already said preflop raise was too big in my initial reply. But you said “the sizing of ur raise n c-bet should you be toned down”. The c-bet was fine i think.

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