Two critical hands from $24, $10k Guarantee deepstack

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    • #24103

      Full Tilt Poker Game #29383420727: $10,000 Guarantee (228285583), Table 31 – 1000/2000 Ante 250 – No Limit Hold’em – 18:21:10 IST – 2011/03/27 [08:51:10 ET – 2011/03/27]
      Seat 1: Ainhi (35,055)
      Seat 2: OzWilko (31,429)
      Seat 3: thefattestgirls (66,341)
      Seat 4: nik1020 (18,348)
      Seat 5: Alex Vee (24,110)
      Seat 6: Daniel Kandi (116,520)
      Seat 7: frolik09 (166,548)
      Seat 8: bapython (54,728)
      Seat 9: Nidurr1 (61,624)
      Ainhi antes 250
      OzWilko antes 250
      thefattestgirls antes 250
      nik1020 antes 250
      Alex Vee antes 250
      Daniel Kandi antes 250
      frolik09 antes 250
      bapython antes 250
      Nidurr1 antes 250
      Nidurr1 posts the small blind of 1,000
      Ainhi posts the big blind of 2,000
      The button is in seat #8
      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to Nidurr1 [3d Ad]
      OzWilko folds
      thefattestgirls folds
      nik1020 folds
      Alex Vee folds
      Daniel Kandi has 15 seconds left to act
      Daniel Kandi raises to 4,480
      frolik09 calls 4,480
      bapython folds
      Nidurr1 calls 3,480
      Ainhi folds
      *** FLOP *** [Td 5d 9s]
      Nidurr1 checks
      Daniel Kandi bets 9,880
      frolik09 calls 9,880
      Nidurr1 has 15 seconds left to act
      Nidurr1 calls 9,880
      *** TURN *** [Td 5d 9s] [7c]
      Nidurr1 checks
      Daniel Kandi bets 22,500
      frolik09 has 15 seconds left to act
      frolik09 folds
      Nidurr1 has 15 seconds left to act
      Nidurr1 folds
      Uncalled bet of 22,500 returned to Daniel Kandi
      Daniel Kandi mucks
      Daniel Kandi wins the pot (47,330)

      How do I play this hand?!? Check calling flop and check folding turn with NFD makes me puke, but I’m not sure what else I should be doing here. Kandi clearly has an overpair to this board, and with the effective stacks this shallow, I don’t think i ever get him to fold a big pair by check-jamming flop. Help, please!

      Full Tilt Poker Game #29385004792: $10,000 Guarantee (228285583), Table 31 – 4000/8000 Ante 1000 – No Limit Hold’em – 19:46:36 IST – 2011/03/27 [10:16:36 ET – 2011/03/27]
      Seat 3: frolik09 (651,772)
      Seat 4: selab1 (239,255)
      Seat 8: PokerstarAA_007 (322,832)
      Seat 9: Nidurr1 (592,141)
      frolik09 antes 1,000
      selab1 antes 1,000
      PokerstarAA_007 antes 1,000
      Nidurr1 antes 1,000
      PokerstarAA_007 posts the small blind of 4,000
      Nidurr1 posts the big blind of 8,000
      The button is in seat #4
      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to Nidurr1 [9c Ah]
      frolik09 raises to 16,000
      selab1 folds
      PokerstarAA_007 folds
      Nidurr1 has 15 seconds left to act
      Nidurr1 raises to 44,589
      frolik09 calls 28,589
      *** FLOP *** [5c 8c 8s]
      Nidurr1 bets 34,598
      frolik09 has 15 seconds left to act
      frolik09 raises to 69,196
      Nidurr1 calls 34,598
      *** TURN *** [5c 8c 8s] [2h]
      Nidurr1 checks
      frolik09 bets 32,000
      Nidurr1 has 15 seconds left to act
      Nidurr1 calls 32,000
      *** RIVER *** [5c 8c 8s 2h] [7d]
      Nidurr1 checks
      frolik09 bets 89,000
      Nidurr1 calls 89,000
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      frolik09 shows [Jh Tc] a pair of Eights
      Nidurr1 shows [9c Ah] a pair of Eights
      Nidurr1 wins the pot (477,570) with a pair of Eights

      Villain had been chip leader throughout the final table, and I’d seen him spew quite a bit before this. I’m asking for advice on this hand in terms of 1) whether by 3 bet sizing here is okay, given position and relative chip stacks, 2) I call his flop raise primarily because I know he knows I have a lot of Ace highs in my range, and he thinks he can get me to fold them to a flop raise, 3) I was thinking of check raising turn for value against his flopped draws, but I feel by check raising turn I get him to fold all his broadway hands which make up a large part of his range when he flats my 3 bet preflop, and these are hands he will almost always make a river bet with since he knows his K/Q/J high is obviously no good and he needs to fire river to win the pot, and I get value by inducing that bluff by flatting turn.

      Any other way to play this hand?

    • #30100
      Denny
      Member

      Good result but I would have folded this PREFLOP – ON THE FLOP TURN and RIVER ….. why would you want to get involved with a marginal hand like A 9 o/s ???

      Your analysis of your own play is biased somewhat as there is no indication he is bluffing; you flat called his flop re-raise and if you thought you were ahead at that point you would re-raise instead you called. You simply check called the turn hoping your Ace is good as well as check calling the river hoping it was good … I don’t think given the way the betting went you were ever sure of being ahead by the river any overpair or underpair had you beat as well AK AQ AJ A10 96 suited and 64 suited any hand with 8 5 2 or 7 in it .. basically you simply called his bets and prayed he had nothing … you would have re-raised the turn if you were sure of being ahead because A high is not a hand to inspire confidence at this stage.

      You have A high with a 9 kicker ; why would you let him see the turn or river in case he hits a pair or improves … I can see why you would play this with two pair, trips or a nut holding … but with an A and a weak kicker it is positively horrific play and the result is more luck than good play.

    • #30101

      Firstly congratz rishabh. heard from himanshu dat u took down a tourney recently. im assuming its this one. way to go 😀

      1st hand – i just checked and even against a pair of kings, u hav a little more than 46% equity. considering that on the flop, the pf raiser bet and got called b4 it got back to u, ur getting more than the correct odds to just jam here on the flop with the NFD and 1 over. u hav a bd wheel draw as well. Even if ur shove does get called, u shldnt mind it. Calling his cbet puts u in an awkward spot where u dont hav much left and if u miss on the turn, u pretty much hav to check fold. jamming on the flop also gives u some fold equity so all in all, it seems like the better play

      2nd hand – i wuld 3 bet slightly bigger as ur oop and by 3 betting less than 3x, ur giving him an incentive to call with a lot of hands especially as he has a decentish stack. on the flop, i wuld cbet bit bigger. i think u cbet bout 1/3rd the pot or lil more. as played, he apparently decided to play back at u cause as u mentioned he knows u culd hav a lot of a highs. he’s repping a pretty polarised range on dat board so since u mentioned he’s spewy, ur A high figures to be good a lot of times. u went with ur read, nothing changed on dat turn and river. gotta know who ur calling down with A high tho and u seemed to know ur opponent here so wp

    • #30102

      oh and mumbaimagic, if ur gonna be folding A9 pre 4 handed, gl to u.

    • #30103
      Denny
      Member

      oh and mumbaimagic, if ur gonna be folding A9 pre 4 handed, gl to u.

      My mistake regards the preflop fold as I assumed it was 9 handed as per the 1st hand but in that case I’d have called the 16,000 and reassessed on the flop … the pot is way too big on the flop for a hand like A 9. If you think he played it correctly ok … but I still think he had no idea where he was once he was re-raised and called on the flop …. he continued in the hand simply hoping his Ace is good and nothing else. But that is only an opinion I am invariably wrong

      But why would he let him see further cards if he is sure he is ahead on the flop; you would just rejam .. it just doesn’t stack up /make any sense. I’d rather close it out and take down the pot there and then … check calling and hoping your are a) ahead b) he doesn’t hit one of his cards is spewy play ….

    • #30104

      My mistake regards the preflop fold as I assumed it was 9 handed as per the 1st hand but in that case I’d have called the 16,000 and reassessed on the flop … the pot is way too big on the flop for a hand like A 9. If you think you played it correctly congrats I still think you had no idea where you were once he re-raised you and to continue in the hand was simply hoping your Ace is good and nothing else. But that is only an opinion I am invariably wrong … but why would you let him draw if you are sure you are ahead at that point ? that makes no sense … I’d rather close it out and take what is in the pot .. value betting and allowing him cards is suicide.

      Huh?!? Just go over the hand again..there are only 4 ppl playing the hand and not 9

    • #30105

      Aditya – Thanks! And yeah, I guess if I’m playing A3s from the SB with a 30BB stack, then I need to be more willing to get it in with the NFD.

    • #30108
      Denny
      Member

      Firstly congratz rishabh. heard from himanshu dat u took down a tourney recently. im assuming its this one. way to go 😀

      1st hand – i just checked and even against a pair of kings, u hav a little more than 46% equity. considering that on the flop, the pf raiser bet and got called b4 it got back to u, ur getting more than the correct odds to just jam here on the flop with the NFD and 1 over. u hav a bd wheel draw as well. Even if ur shove does get called, u shldnt mind it. Calling his cbet puts u in an awkward spot where u dont hav much left and if u miss on the turn, u pretty much hav to check fold. jamming on the flop also gives u some fold equity so all in all, it seems like the better play

      Pretty much what is said here … JAM the flop and let him make the tough decision.

    • #30109

      My mistake regards the preflop fold as I assumed it was 9 handed as per the 1st hand but in that case I’d have called the 16,000 and reassessed on the flop … the pot is way too big on the flop for a hand like A 9. If you think he played it correctly ok … but I still think he had no idea where he was once he was re-raised and called on the flop …. he continued in the hand simply hoping his Ace is good and nothing else. But that is only an opinion I am invariably wrong

      But why would he let him see further cards if he is sure he is ahead on the flop; you would just rejam .. it just doesn’t stack up /make any sense. I’d rather close it out and take down the pot there and then … check calling and hoping your are a) ahead b) he doesn’t hit one of his cards is spewy play ….

      I’m never getting called by a worse hand if I 3 bet the flop or check raise the turn. Hence the check calling. As I mentioned earlier, Frolik had been pretty spewy throughout the final table, and I thought my Ace high was good a high percentage of the time in that spot. I re-evaluate all broadway cards and all clubs on turn/river, and call/fold depending on his bet sizing.

    • #30125
      saby
      Member

      Reshove first of all man you are doing great. Congrats on achieving over 30% ROI in SNG and 413% ROI in MTT on FTP.

      Thanks for posting the hands for all of us to learn.

      For the hands i think

      1. Jam the flop, not sure why you call his C bet cos if you called with AX suited the best you can hit is a draw and i am sure your pre flop plan was to hit the draw and shove. I think shoving was +EV here.

      2. Hand 2 well played only thing is maybe you could have 3 bet a to about 52k (Villain looks like he will call it from your description) you have position on him and you could have played a larger pot here. Again on the Flop make a bigger bet with position.
      Looking at how the hand played WP

      Keep posting

    • #30128
      Denny
      Member

      2. Hand 2 well played only thing is maybe you could have 3 bet a to about 52k (Villain looks like he will call it from your description) you have position on him and you could have played a larger pot here. Again on the Flop make a bigger bet with position.
      Looking at how the hand played WP

      Keep posting

      Great analysis – do you understand position ??? It’s simple – last to act in the betting has position (SB and BB post compulsory bets so the BTN is last preflop) since he is the BB he is definitely OOP.

      Also Ace high – is far from the nuts or even unbeatable – why would he want or allow the villian more cards by passively calling if he truely believes he is ahead; the villian can easily catch a card to make a pair. He was re-raised on the flop and passively called which suggests he was unsure whether his opponent had a hand or air at that point. He then simply elected to check call hoping the villian had nothing and allowing him the opportunity to catch a card to pair his hand. If he his certain he is still ahead he would or should check raise the turn and take it down there and then …. not risking losing it on a dodgy river card … The reason he called was the villian made it cheap enough … but he is far from certain where he was in the hand throughout …

      That said the call on the turn and river proved correct – but I disagree he was certain that we was ahead – had the villian shoved on the river. Also for a “spewy player” the villian is chip leader at that table so he must have hands a fair % of the time and he has him covered.

      So calling the turn and river, hoping your Ace and your opponent has no pair or a better A is far from great play … albeit it was a winning one. If reshove had an overpair to the board I would have less opposition to this line of play. But at the end of the day it is still only my opinion …. IF he is happy playing A 9 it that manner good luck … it’s just not for me 🙂

    • #30129

      Saby – Thanks dude. Its all variance 🙂 The unanimous verdict seems to be I misplayed Hand 1, and should be 3 betting more in hand 2, though I feel 52k is overkill. Definitely should be firing bigger flop bet, though I feel this is a pretty dry board for range of hands he flats me pre with, because of which I went with this flop bet size. But – point well taken.

      Mumbai Magic – Thanks for your feedback.

    • #30132
      richestuser
      Member

      well played in both hands….
      raising with A 9 after flop was indeed right play… because u still had 2 over card…which was a standard play…
      normally 2h on turn will not change anything… hence i would bet in that spot..rather than check calling…
      opponent makes a weak bet of 32K in a bigger pot…. so raising is also an option given that opponent is weak….

      U made a call of 89K on river which was very gud one….and to be precise out of my standard(lol)…i would have folded on that spot..giving a credit of over pair to opponent like Tens or 99s..

      gud luck

    • #30133
      Denny
      Member

      Mumbai Magic – Thanks for your feedback.

      Thanks – only my view; think I simply mean I’d rather you closed it out on the flop or turn rather than risk losing the pot with an unlucky turn or river card – Good luck – not that you need it judging by the comments !!

    • #30134
      saby
      Member

      When you are on the BB you have position on everybody pre flop…in short you are last to act and when you are in BB and wana raise raise bigger cos you will OOP post flop…. MM i dont understand half the things in Poker and i know you do…so why dont you post your big hands from the countless tournaments you won maybe mere mortals like me can pick up a few tips and improve our game

    • #30135
      saby
      Member

      Variance ha ha then put in as many hours as you can when ur riding the bull….. well know what everyone plays differently there is always another way to play chess or poker so just listen to ppl and decide if what they say makes sense if not follow what you think is correct.

    • #30137
      Denny
      Member

      When you are on the BB you have position on everybody pre flop…in short you are last to act and when you are in BB and wana raise raise bigger cos you will OOP post flop…. MM i dont understand half the things in Poker and i know you do…so why dont you post your big hands from the countless tournaments you won maybe mere mortals like me can pick up a few tips and improve our game

      https://pokerguru.in/forum/editpost.php?p=4991&do=editpost

      Direct quote from poker for beginners – visit any decent site they will tell you the exact same

      Position is simply where you are sitting in relation to the dealer’s button. In holdem and many other poker games, your position at the table is a big factor. The strength of your position comes from the fact that the betting goes in a clockwise fashion. In a favorable position you get to see how many other players react to their hands and whether they fold, bet, or call before you do. The poker phrase, “Position is power” comes from this simple idea.

      There are many names associated with position to identify where players are sitting in relation to the dealer’s button. Each particular position has its own strengths or weaknesses.

      * The small blind has the worst position after the flop and must invest half a bet.
      * The big blind invests an entire bet and similarly has a poor position.
      * The player under the gun has the worst position preflop and a junk position afterwards.
      * The button has the best position during any betting round.

      If you aren’t familiar with the above terms (small blind, button, under the gun), visit our page on position terms.

      Ok technically the BB is last to act but he has already been forced to post a blind for “any two random cards” and it is generally accepted that the button has position preflop since he can invest having “seen his cards” or he can fold his “any 2 random cards” or he can raise the BB who has already invested – yes he is technically in postion – but I would argue that the majority of players that I know consider the BTN to have position throughout the hand; even preflop … yes you can reraise but since limpers can be setting traps I doubt anyone is raising with a light hand .. because whether I limp or raise I am already prepared to see a flop. I see no point in entering a pot to be forced out by the BB alone .. if EP or MP reraise then yeah I will fold …

      Guess it depends on your view of the BB v the BTN …. technically I agree it is last to act – but I would still argue the BTN is the better position pre and post.

      I don’t need to post hands to know your information is incorrect – Yup BB is in position through out … PMSL
      This is a forum for advice – not a self congratulatory look how well I played that hand – pat me on the back.

      As for tournament wins; since you need to know I have won one live one in Edinburgh at the stanley casino – one live win in the Maybury and one win (we chopped 1st and 2nd) in Blackpool (G Casino) as the evening tourney was about to kick off ..

      Do you want me to list my final tables and cashes as well: since telling you the cash amounts will make sooooo much difference to the logic and advice given … LOL !!

      P.S

      When you are on the BB you have position on everybody pre flop…in short you are last to act and when you are in BB and

      You just contradicted your earlier post

      Reshove first of all man you are doing great. Congrats on achieving over 30% ROI in SNG and 413% ROI in MTT on FTP.

      Thanks for posting the hands for all of us to learn.

      For the hands i think

      2. Hand 2 well played only thing is maybe you could have 3 bet a to about 52k (Villain looks like he will call it from your description) you have position on him and you could have played a larger pot here. Again on the Flop make a bigger bet with position.
      Looking at how the hand played WP

      Keep posting

      Which is it – is he OOP or in position – can’t be both can it ???

    • #24104
      Denny
      Member

      MM i dont understand half the things in Poker and i know you do..

      I don’t understand half of it either – and some of it I do not learn and I should – Intervention plays more with + or – EV in his decisions and pot odds etc … I have basic knowledge of the pot odds v my outs etc which I consider (rightly or wrongly) MORE applicable to cash games .. an area I really need to devote more time too, possibly a leak in my tourney play preflop and after; since I have a bad habit of flush chasing – I’m still trying to control/correct that aspect of my game …

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